Re: T-Mobile GSM phones for Europe/Asia?

Posted: 08-23-2005, 05:32 PM
John E. wrote:
> Considering going with T-Mobile here in USA. I like Nokia phones (brand name
> loyalty based on good experience). Need a speaker phone. Camera, messaging,
> etc. not important. Working in Europe or Asia a possibility next year.

Ok.
>
> I understand that outside USA, GMS is the most "universal" standard. Is this
> right?

GSM is used in a great lot of countries. More than any other standard.
>
> WIll any of these phones work in Europe/Asia?
>
> 6800 GSM/GPRS 850/1900

No
> 6610 GSM/GPRS 900/1800/1900

Yes
> 6600 GSM/GPRS/HSCSD 900/1800/1900

Yes
> 3660 GSM 900/1800/1900

Yes
> 3650 GSM 900/1800/1900

Yes
> 3220 GSM/GPRS/EDGE 850/1800/1900

Yes

900 and 1800 are used outside North America
850 (new) and 1900 in North America
>
> Of the different standards (GMS/GPRS/HSCSD/EDGE), which are 1) most widely
> supported 2) "better" (technically?) 3) anything else you'd like to say about
> them?

- CSD is the "normal" GSM data standard which all data phones can use
and virtually all networks are using this at 9600-14000 bit/sec. This is
billed to the minute.

- HSCSD is the "highspeed" version of this using more than one channel,
so it is able to have 2 to 4 times the thruput of CSD. This is billed to
the minute at the same of CSD for several channels or sometimes per
channel. Not available with all phones and all networks.

- GPRS is using packeted data not using full speech channels. Used on
most networks and most newer phones. You can stay always on with this
because its billed to the amount of data sent and received. Interesing
for "data push scenarios". Speed often upload capacity is less than the
capacity for download. Speed can be higher than HSCSD.

- EDGE can give even higher data throuput via better modulation.
Not used very often until now.

Wolfgang
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Responses to "Re: T-Mobile GSM phones for Europe/Asia?"

John Phillips
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Re: T-Mobile GSM phones for Europe/Asia?
Posted: 08-23-2005, 09:25 PM
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, at 18:32:06 [GMT +0200] (02:32:06 Wednesday, 24 August
2005 where I live) "Wolfgang Barth" wrote:

>> 3220 GSM/GPRS/EDGE 850/1800/1900

> Yes


Actually may not - some networks "hide" the 1800 band and only hand over
from the 900 band.

--
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Ivor Jones
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Re: T-Mobile GSM phones for Europe/Asia?
Posted: 08-23-2005, 09:47 PM


"John Phillips" <flatulantdingo@deadspam.com> wrote in
message news:1873745362.20050824062514@deadspam.com
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, at 18:32:06 [GMT +0200] (02:32:06
> Wednesday, 24 August 2005 where I live) "Wolfgang Barth"
> wrote:
>
> > > 3220 GSM/GPRS/EDGE 850/1800/1900

> > Yes

>
> Actually may not - some networks "hide" the 1800 band and
> only hand over from the 900 band.


And some don't have 1800 at all.

Ivor


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DevilsPGD
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Re: T-Mobile GSM phones for Europe/Asia?
Posted: 08-24-2005, 12:39 AM
In message <1873745362.20050824062514@deadspam.com> John
Phillips<flatulantdingo@deadspam.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, at 18:32:06 [GMT +0200] (02:32:06 Wednesday, 24 August
>2005 where I live) "Wolfgang Barth" wrote:
>
>>> 3220 GSM/GPRS/EDGE 850/1800/1900

>> Yes

>
>Actually may not - some networks "hide" the 1800 band and only hand over
>from the 900 band.


It might be just me, but that sounds weird -- Why would they do that?

--
What's orange, brown, black, and red? Give up?
They're COLOURS, idiot!
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John Phillips
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Re: T-Mobile GSM phones for Europe/Asia?
Posted: 08-24-2005, 12:37 PM
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, at 17:39:19 [GMT -0600] (09:39:19 Wednesday, 24 August
2005 where I live) "DevilsPGD" wrote:

>>Actually may not - some networks "hide" the 1800 band and only hand over
>>from the 900 band.


> It might be just me, but that sounds weird -- Why would they do that?


No idea, but Tel$tra Australia do that.

--
Purranoia:The feeling that your cat is up to something.

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Wolfgang Barth
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Re: T-Mobile GSM phones for Europe/Asia?
Posted: 08-24-2005, 05:57 PM
DevilsPGD wrote:
>>On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, at 18:32:06 [GMT +0200] (02:32:06 Wednesday, 24 August
>>2005 where I live) "Wolfgang Barth" wrote:
>>
>>>>3220 GSM/GPRS/EDGE 850/1800/1900
>>>Yes

Yes, there are 900 only networks and there are 1800 only networks.
>>
>>Actually may not - some networks "hide" the 1800 band and only hand over
>>from the 900 band.

>
> It might be just me, but that sounds weird -- Why would they do that?
>

Technical Reason.
Some cells of combined 900/1800 networks are using a channel of the 900
band for organisational purposes, to check you identity ...

So you need the 900 band even if speech is taking place in the 1800
band. A 1800 only phone will not work in such a cell.

Wolfgang
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DevilsPGD
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Re: T-Mobile GSM phones for Europe/Asia?
Posted: 08-24-2005, 06:19 PM
In message <3n3n6bF19h6a0U1@individual.net> Wolfgang Barth
<barthwo@spamfence.net> wrote:

>DevilsPGD wrote:
>>>On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, at 18:32:06 [GMT +0200] (02:32:06 Wednesday, 24 August
>>>2005 where I live) "Wolfgang Barth" wrote:
>>>
>>>>>3220 GSM/GPRS/EDGE 850/1800/1900
>>>>Yes

>Yes, there are 900 only networks and there are 1800 only networks.
>>>
>>>Actually may not - some networks "hide" the 1800 band and only hand over
>>>from the 900 band.

>>
>> It might be just me, but that sounds weird -- Why would they do that?
>>

>Technical Reason.
>Some cells of combined 900/1800 networks are using a channel of the 900
>band for organisational purposes, to check you identity ...
>
>So you need the 900 band even if speech is taking place in the 1800
>band. A 1800 only phone will not work in such a cell.


Interesting -- But again, it seems odd to not have an equivalent 1800
channel doesn't it?

On the other hand, if the 900MHz signal is carried by all towers equal
to the 1800MHz signal, and all phones sold by that carrier handle both,
it's probably a moot point.

--
Warning Dates in Calendar are closer than they appear.
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Donald Newcomb
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Re: T-Mobile GSM phones for Europe/Asia?
Posted: 08-25-2005, 12:20 AM

"DevilsPGD" <spamsucks@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
news:a5bng1psfo34c7ajk7if8vr7o4h3j70v9l@4ax.com...
> It might be just me, but that sounds weird -- Why would they do that?


It has to do with they way the carrier views their 1800 MHz spectrum. Some
mostly-900-MHz carriers use 1800 MHz just for spot coverage to increase
capacity in high usage areas. They make no attempt to provide continuous
1800 MHz coverage. In this situation the only benefit of using 1800 MHz
control channels would be for the tiny revenue from the few roamers who have
1800-only phones. Remember that until quite recently, international phones
that didn't have 900 MHz were nonentities. The only 1800-only phones were a
few old models from the early days when Orange and One2One (Now T-Mobile UK)
were brand new. The only thing that even brings this discussion up again is
Cingular's bizarre idea that it's good enough to send customers roaming
around the world with a phone without 900 MHz.

--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net


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Mike Schumann
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Re: T-Mobile GSM phones for Europe/Asia?
Posted: 08-25-2005, 07:06 AM
I wouldn't blame Cingular for that. I suspect that Nokia took the easy way
out, and instead of coming out with a quad band phone, they adapted their
existing tri-band design by switching the 900 frequency to 850. It's been
VERY frustrating, that the market leader for so many years, is the last one
on the planet coming out with quad band phones.

Mike Schumann

"Donald Newcomb" <DRNewcomb@attglobal.NOT.net> wrote in message
news:430d0471_4@news1.prserv.net...
>
> "DevilsPGD" <spamsucks@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
> news:a5bng1psfo34c7ajk7if8vr7o4h3j70v9l@4ax.com...
>> It might be just me, but that sounds weird -- Why would they do that?

>
> It has to do with they way the carrier views their 1800 MHz spectrum. Some
> mostly-900-MHz carriers use 1800 MHz just for spot coverage to increase
> capacity in high usage areas. They make no attempt to provide continuous
> 1800 MHz coverage. In this situation the only benefit of using 1800 MHz
> control channels would be for the tiny revenue from the few roamers who
> have
> 1800-only phones. Remember that until quite recently, international phones
> that didn't have 900 MHz were nonentities. The only 1800-only phones were
> a
> few old models from the early days when Orange and One2One (Now T-Mobile
> UK)
> were brand new. The only thing that even brings this discussion up again
> is
> Cingular's bizarre idea that it's good enough to send customers roaming
> around the world with a phone without 900 MHz.
>
> --
> Donald Newcomb
> DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
>
>



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Donald Newcomb
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Re: T-Mobile GSM phones for Europe/Asia?
Posted: 08-25-2005, 11:34 AM

"Mike Schumann" <mike-nospam@traditions-nospam.com> wrote in message
newsddPe.1578$FW1.1019@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> I wouldn't blame Cingular for that.


What I do blame Cingular for is leading their customers to believe that this
is a "Global" phone.

--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net


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