John Navas wrote:
> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Spectrum wrote:
>>> I've found that virus programs are like vampires. You have to invite
>>> them in.
>
>>Somewhat true, if you consider browing with Javascript enabled to
>>be an invitation.
>
> You still have to invite them in.

Problem with that is that you don't always know you're doing so, as
long as you run a browser with JS enabled. I don't know if I'd consider
that an invitation as much as an exploitation of the ignorance of the
average web user.

--
All relevant people are pertinent.
All rude people are impertinent.
Therefore, no rude people are relevant.
-- Solomon W. Golomb

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.motorola - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <b3glh3-i8l.ln1@remote.clifto.com> on Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:55:07 -0500,
clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Spectrum wrote:
>>>> I've found that virus programs are like vampires. You have to invite
>>>> them in.
>>
>>>Somewhat true, if you consider browing with Javascript enabled to
>>>be an invitation.
>>
>> You still have to invite them in.
>
>Problem with that is that you don't always know you're doing so, as
>long as you run a browser with JS enabled. I don't know if I'd consider
>that an invitation as much as an exploitation of the ignorance of the
>average web user.

You have to allow something to run or install, which I call an invitation.
If you don't know you're doing so, then I'd say you're not paying attention.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

John Navas wrote:
> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>John Navas wrote:
>>> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>Spectrum wrote:
>>>>> I've found that virus programs are like vampires. You have to invite
>>>>> them in.
>>>
>>>>Somewhat true, if you consider browing with Javascript enabled to
>>>>be an invitation.
>>>
>>> You still have to invite them in.
>>
>>Problem with that is that you don't always know you're doing so, as
>>long as you run a browser with JS enabled. I don't know if I'd consider
>>that an invitation as much as an exploitation of the ignorance of the
>>average web user.
>
> You have to allow something to run or install, which I call an invitation.
> If you don't know you're doing so, then I'd say you're not paying attention.

I have several friends who are quite expert who've been trojaned
and/or virused through Javascript exploits. I have another friend
who brings his computer here every few months; he knows better
than to give explicit permission to ANY web thingy that wants
to run, he doesn't open e-mail unless he knows the sender, and
yet he somehow ends up with ten or fifteen unfriendlyware items
on his computer.

I had, but apparently didn't keep, a URL for a site that showed
lots of Javascript exploits, some of which were quite nasty, and
not one of which asked for permission to run.

Just did a quickie search and found
<http://www.gigablast.com/get?q=javascript+exploits&c=main&rtq=0&d=200704732 261>
(archive, original no longer available) which says:

"The Scob Trojan is a VBScript utility which targets Microsoft
IIS servers, that appends a malicious JavaScript to web pages
in the compromised web server.

"When a user accesses the infected web page, the appended
JavaScript downloads a file from a Russian website to the
user's desktop, without any user intervention."

So no, you don't have to allow something to run or install. It
can run and install itself quite capably without permission.

--
All relevant people are pertinent.
All rude people are impertinent.
Therefore, no rude people are relevant.
-- Solomon W. Golomb

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.motorola - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <55cmh3-g1m.ln1@remote.clifto.com> on Fri, 21 Apr 2006 01:53:56 -0500,
clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:

>> You have to allow something to run or install, which I call an invitation.
>> If you don't know you're doing so, then I'd say you're not paying attention.
>
>I have several friends who are quite expert who've been trojaned
>and/or virused through Javascript exploits.

Then, and with all due respect, they weren't paying attention.

>I have another friend
>who brings his computer here every few months; he knows better
>than to give explicit permission to ANY web thingy that wants
>to run, he doesn't open e-mail unless he knows the sender, and
>yet he somehow ends up with ten or fifteen unfriendlyware items
>on his computer.

He's missing something he's doing.

>I had, but apparently didn't keep, a URL for a site that showed
>lots of Javascript exploits, some of which were quite nasty, and
>not one of which asked for permission to run.
>
>Just did a quickie search and found
><http://www.gigablast.com/get?q=javascript+exploits&c=main&rtq=0&d=200704732 261>
>(archive, original no longer available) which says:
>
> "The Scob Trojan is a VBScript utility which targets Microsoft
> IIS servers, that appends a malicious JavaScript to web pages
> in the compromised web server.
>
> "When a user accesses the infected web page, the appended
> JavaScript downloads a file from a Russian website to the
> user's desktop, without any user intervention."
>
>So no, you don't have to allow something to run or install. It
>can run and install itself quite capably without permission.

Actually you do have to run and install it -- even taking this at face value
-- something downloaded to your desktop but not run or installed is harmless.

Bottom line: You haven't proved your case.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

http://www.phazeddl.com/search.php?q...0phone%20tools

"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:ODU1g.54743$1q4.51232@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.motorola - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <b3glh3-i8l.ln1@remote.clifto.com> on Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:55:07 -0500,
> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>John Navas wrote:
>>> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>Spectrum wrote:
>>>>> I've found that virus programs are like vampires. You have to invite
>>>>> them in.
>>>
>>>>Somewhat true, if you consider browing with Javascript enabled to
>>>>be an invitation.
>>>
>>> You still have to invite them in.
>>
>>Problem with that is that you don't always know you're doing so, as
>>long as you run a browser with JS enabled. I don't know if I'd consider
>>that an invitation as much as an exploitation of the ignorance of the
>>average web user.
>
> You have to allow something to run or install, which I call an invitation.
> If you don't know you're doing so, then I'd say you're not paying
> attention.
>
agreed.

"clifto" <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:55cmh3-g1m.ln1@remote.clifto.com...
> John Navas wrote:
>> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>John Navas wrote:
>>>> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>Spectrum wrote:
>>>>>> I've found that virus programs are like vampires. You have to invite
>>>>>> them in.
>>>>
>>>>>Somewhat true, if you consider browing with Javascript enabled to
>>>>>be an invitation.
>>>>
>>>> You still have to invite them in.
>>>
>>>Problem with that is that you don't always know you're doing so, as
>>>long as you run a browser with JS enabled. I don't know if I'd consider
>>>that an invitation as much as an exploitation of the ignorance of the
>>>average web user.
>>
>> You have to allow something to run or install, which I call an
>> invitation.
>> If you don't know you're doing so, then I'd say you're not paying
>> attention.
>
> I have several friends who are quite expert who've been trojaned
> and/or virused through Javascript exploits.

Then they are no where near as smart as they think they are !!

> I have another friend
> who brings his computer here every few months; he knows better
> than to give explicit permission to ANY web thingy that wants
> to run, he doesn't open e-mail unless he knows the sender, and
> yet he somehow ends up with ten or fifteen unfriendlyware items
> on his computer.
>

Obviously he *doesn't* know better, he should try and learn about viruses,
how you get them, what they look like and how to *really* stop them.
I consider myself fairly expert but no one knows everything, i used Win9xand
now XP for quite some time, i haven't had a single viruses or trojan for
over 10 years or more, i used to get some when i was new to it all but now i
know exactly how not to get them - ever.
Although i realise there is always a risk, but i would know about it if i
had something, it's like you car, you should know yor computer and how it
runs, if it starts making a strange rattling noise you find out what it is.

>
> "When a user accesses the infected web page, the appended
> JavaScript downloads a file from a Russian website to the
> user's desktop, without any user intervention."
>

> So no, you don't have to allow something to run or install. It
> can run and install itself quite capably without permission.
>

There are certainly vulnerabilities/exploits, especially with java and
activeX but Microsoft have succeded in securing XP quite well now and are
keeping up with new exploits quite well, so unless you are running an
unpatched system with poor security it's pretty unlikely this would ever
happen, and a file downloaded to your desktop would do nothing unless you
open it, but by then, if you have a decent AV program it should already be
neutralised.

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 01:42:40 GMT, John Navas
<spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:

>[POSTED TO alt.cellular.motorola - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
>In <8YqdnctJC_FDQNvZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com> on Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:04:09
>-0700, "gymowner" <gymowner@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>I lost my hard drive with 5 years worth of work on it, including all my
>>documents, "I'm a trader', all my documents and music, etc, back up was
>>trashed,
>
>Really? How? I check my own backup every time, and I know it to be good.
>
>>there is something going around, that re -formatted my drive, so be
>>careful.
>
>That's been true for years. You know that ... right?
>
>>If anyone has a copy of "phone tools", I'd appreciate a link, as I
>>lost my email with every ebay transaction on it, and can't find who I
>>purchased it from. thanks
>
>That would be illegal. You need to contact BVRP or Motorola. Or just buy a
>new copy for only $10 or so.

I am sure if you bought yours from Moto and you call them they will
just look you up and give you the download link again. They have been
very cooperative every time I have called them.


(¯`·._Hardtime_.·´¯)

http://geocities.com/arcticjohn88/arcticjohn88

It was probably a windows update.

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:23:16 -0700, "gymowner" <gymowner@comcast.net>
wrote:

>I use you're site and others for programs. Somehow this Trojan or virus, got
>past 2 virus programs, and several other protective programs including a
>router with it's own security, and a fire wall, along with adware spy bot
>etc, so check to see if you're protection is working, as I just noticed that
>somehow my second machine somehow turned it's virus program off. I am very
>diligent with this stuff on a nightly basis, I update all security programs,
>and adware scan every night. If it got tru me, it can get to anyone. In 10
>yrs I never had anything get past me, and my machines run 15 hours per day,
>for 7 or 8 years now. This somehow corrupted the data on both drives in one
>of my machines making chkdsk and fix boot, impossible, it also took a
>section of the ntfs partition, and re wrote it, go figure
>"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>news:kGB1g.23712$az4.17825@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.motorola - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>>
>> In <8YqdnctJC_FDQNvZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com> on Wed, 19 Apr 2006
>> 18:04:09
>> -0700, "gymowner" <gymowner@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I lost my hard drive with 5 years worth of work on it, including all my
>>>documents, "I'm a trader', all my documents and music, etc, back up was
>>>trashed,
>>
>> Really? How? I check my own backup every time, and I know it to be good.
>>
>>>there is something going around, that re -formatted my drive, so be
>>>careful.
>>
>> That's been true for years. You know that ... right?
>>
>>>If anyone has a copy of "phone tools", I'd appreciate a link, as I
>>>lost my email with every ebay transaction on it, and can't find who I
>>>purchased it from. thanks
>>
>> That would be illegal. You need to contact BVRP or Motorola. Or just buy
>> a
>> new copy for only $10 or so.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
>> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
>


(¯`·._Hardtime_.·´¯)

http://geocities.com/arcticjohn88/arcticjohn88

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:55:07 -0500, clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Spectrum wrote:
>>>> I've found that virus programs are like vampires. You have to invite
>>>> them in.
>>
>>>Somewhat true, if you consider browing with Javascript enabled to
>>>be an invitation.
>>
>> You still have to invite them in.
>
>Problem with that is that you don't always know you're doing so, as
>long as you run a browser with JS enabled. I don't know if I'd consider
>that an invitation as much as an exploitation of the ignorance of the
>average web user.

I hope that you are not running freebie software as you get what you
pay for. I use the latest Norton and F-Secure and never have any
problems unless of course I am installing a Microsoft Program where
you have to turn off your protection to get it to install properly.

I even have people send me viruses to open up and look at to see how
to fix it for various clients.

As a whole most are right when they say you have to invite the viruses
in but Microsoft does in fact do that with their own programs and
updates.


(¯`·._Hardtime_.·´¯)

http://geocities.com/arcticjohn88/arcticjohn88