I need motorola phone tools: Could someone please post??

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.motorola - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <41dd7f84$0$99172$45beb828@newscene.com> on 6 Jan 2005 12:15:12 -0600,
"BBJD" <Me@myhouse.com> wrote:

>TIA
>REDDOG

Not free. Readily available from Motorola, BVRP, and dealers.
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:TdiDd.336$m31.5174@typhoon.sonic.net...

> Not free. Readily available from Motorola, BVRP, and dealers.

Unless it's something really cool, the service providers should make basic
"phone use" software available for free (or included cost, depending on how
you look at it). Phonebook, preferences, ringtones, the whole nine yards. In
no way am I suggesting that the authors of such products get stiffed, just
that the providers stop trying to screw their customers for these extras.
And they do.



Scott Vita

It's a competitive market and the ads have to show a lower price than
the other guy's. So, the only way to bring people in the door is to
offer a stripped box and upsell the extras. This is somewhat unique to
the US market with heavily subsidized phones. When I bought a v600 from
a Hong Kong dealer the box included the phone, battery, charger & book
as expected plus a bluetooth headset, car cord, data cable, MPT disk and
extra set of covers. The price was little more but the overall package
was a better albeit more expensive value. Users aren't being screwed if
the package is cheaper without the extras. They can then pick and choose
and just pay for what they need.
As for bundling the software, there's just not that much demand for it.
Less than 10% of users actually connect their phones to a PC. Despite
all the features and capabilities of the phones most people still just
use them to make and receive phone calls and, in the case of the younger
market, use SMS.

From:Scott Vita
sfvita@yahoo.com

> "John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
> news:TdiDd.336$m31.5174@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
>> Not free. Readily available from Motorola, BVRP, and dealers.
>
> Unless it's something really cool, the service providers should make
> basic "phone use" software available for free (or included cost,
> depending on how you look at it). Phonebook, preferences, ringtones,
> the whole nine yards. In no way am I suggesting that the authors of
> such products get stiffed, just that the providers stop trying to
> screw their customers for these extras. And they do.
>
>
>
> Scott Vita

"BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
news:ydoDd.51749$nP1.19691@twister.socal.rr.com...

> It's a competitive market and the ads have to show a lower price than the
> other guy's. So, the only way to bring people in the door is to offer a
> stripped box and upsell the extras. This is somewhat unique to the US
> market with heavily subsidized phones. When I bought a v600 from a Hong
> Kong dealer the box included the phone, battery, charger & book as
> expected plus a bluetooth headset, car cord, data cable, MPT disk and
> extra set of covers. The price was little more but the overall package was
> a better albeit more expensive value.

I hear that. You paid too much.

> Users aren't being screwed if the package is cheaper without the extras.
> They can then pick and choose and just pay for what they need.

True, but a $1.99 for a shitty midi of a popular track is a rip-off. Don't
try and tell me that the providers aren't trying to scam that deal.


> As for bundling the software, there's just not that much demand for it.

There will be, as users become more aware. Most people will just require
basic stuff, like PC or MAC access to the phone they bought and paid for.
It's the obvious attempt to restrict such access that feeds the hacker
market. Make it worth paying for, and people will pay you for it. Make it
not worth paying for, and people will steal it from you.



Scott Vita





Scott Vita

I paid too much? But you don't even know how much I paid. I paid a fair
price and got a package of goods for less than what the sum of the parts
would have cost. The Bluetooth headset alone would have been more than
the extra amount I paid.

Ringtones are, to me and you, overpriced. If enough people weren't
willing to pay the price, the price would come down - but for now there
are enough people willing to pay the price. It's called a marketing
opportunity. Free market forces will dictate the price. It's not a
ripoff or a scam if the perceived value is there, after all, it's not a
necessity item. And don't forget it's not just the carriers charging
that much, it's independent dealers/websites as well.

There are a number of competing companies offering software to access
the phone from a PC. Should they all be required to give it away or just
the seller of the phone? Should the seller be required to give you your
choice of free products or be allowed to dictate which free product you
should get? Answer: You want the software you have to buy it or roll
your own and make it freeware.

If something is not worth the price don't buy it. Just because something
is "overpriced" doesn't mean that you're entitled to get it for free.
One who steals it is a thief and no amount of justification changes
that. Like I said earlier, this isn't milk for the baby it's software
for a phone - hardly a basic need.

Lastly, a true hacker is not one who steals. A true hacker will learn
how to interface with the phone and develop a product superior to the
others and offer it as freeware or shareware. Linux is the result of a
true hacker's efforts.


From:Scott Vita
sfvita@yahoo.com

> "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
> news:ydoDd.51749$nP1.19691@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
>> It's a competitive market and the ads have to show a lower price
>> than the other guy's. So, the only way to bring people in the door
>> is to offer a stripped box and upsell the extras. This is somewhat
>> unique to the US market with heavily subsidized phones. When I
>> bought a v600 from a Hong Kong dealer the box included the phone,
>> battery, charger & book as expected plus a bluetooth headset, car
>> cord, data cable, MPT disk and extra set of covers. The price was
>> little more but the overall package was a better albeit more
>> expensive value.
>
> I hear that. You paid too much.
>
>> Users aren't being screwed if the package is cheaper without the
>> extras. They can then pick and choose and just pay for what they
>> need.
>
> True, but a $1.99 for a shitty midi of a popular track is a rip-off.
> Don't try and tell me that the providers aren't trying to scam that
> deal.
>
>> As for bundling the software, there's just not that much demand for
>> it.
>
> There will be, as users become more aware. Most people will just
> require basic stuff, like PC or MAC access to the phone they bought
> and paid for. It's the obvious attempt to restrict such access that
> feeds the hacker market. Make it worth paying for, and people will
> pay you for it. Make it not worth paying for, and people will steal
> it from you.
>
>
> Scott Vita
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott Vita

"BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
news:bhpDd.51756$nP1.13740@twister.socal.rr.com...

>I paid too much? But you don't even know how much I paid. I paid a fair
>price and got a package of goods for less than what the sum of the parts
>would have cost. The Bluetooth headset alone would have been more than the
>extra amount I paid.

I retract. I don't know what you paid. I am currently annoyed by phone
service providers and let my frustration get the best of me. I apologize.


> Ringtones are, to me and you, overpriced. If enough people weren't willing
> to pay the price, the price would come down - but for now there are enough
> people willing to pay the price. It's called a marketing opportunity. Free
> market forces will dictate the price. It's not a ripoff or a scam if the
> perceived value is there, after all, it's not a necessity item. And don't
> forget it's not just the carriers charging that much, it's independent
> dealers/websites as well.


The problem is that it's not a free market. At least in my experience
(Verizon, Nextel) the providers try to force you to buy their stuff or do
without. That's why people seek hacks in order to gain control of their
phones. I am a musician and when I realized that modern cell phones have a
midi synth and/or digital sound player I naturally sought to gain control
over it, both for fun and function. I guess it's not enough that I buy the
phone and service, now they want to charge me an exorbitant price to make
full use of what I've bought. Take note; I'm not interested in stealing
anything, I just don't like getting ripped-off. Again, this is what feeds
the internet hacker market.


> There are a number of competing companies offering software to access the
> phone from a PC. Should they all be required to give it away or just the
> seller of the phone?


I believe that the provider should offer an open platform access to the
phone. In my experience, they do not.

> Lastly, a true hacker is not one who steals. A true hacker will learn how
> to interface with the phone and develop a product superior to the others
> and offer it as freeware or shareware. Linux is the result of a true
> hacker's efforts.

Semantics. Bottom line: If people sense they are being ripped-off they will
seek a work-around and take pleasure in "beating the man". If they sense
they are getting a square deal, they won't bother. You seem to agree with me
that the ringtone thing is a rip-off. Like I said before, as a musician I
could create all manner of great ringtones. I would like to use these with
the phone that I own. I would like to share them for free with other phone
users. The providers work hard to prevent this because instead of just being
happy with selling you the phones and service, they want to screw people for
the little extras. I believe that concept will go the way of DIVX.




Scott Vita

What's preventing you from creating and offering free ringtones? Surely
not some corporate conspiracy! There are plenty of sites you can find
for ringtones - you're not limited to your carrier or phone
manufacturer. When people stop being willing to pay $2/tone the price
will drop.
As for the requirement for a cable and software, the price is not
unreasonable so what's the point? Should a car dealer or manufacturer be
required to provide a free tow hitch on every truck just because it can
tow things or is it more reasonable to ask only those who actually want
to tow things to pay for the hitch?

From:Scott Vita
sfvita@yahoo.com

> "BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
> news:bhpDd.51756$nP1.13740@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
>> I paid too much? But you don't even know how much I paid. I paid a
>> fair price and got a package of goods for less than what the sum of
>> the parts would have cost. The Bluetooth headset alone would have
>> been more than the extra amount I paid.
>
> I retract. I don't know what you paid. I am currently annoyed by phone
> service providers and let my frustration get the best of me. I
> apologize.
>
>> Ringtones are, to me and you, overpriced. If enough people weren't
>> willing to pay the price, the price would come down - but for now
>> there are enough people willing to pay the price. It's called a
>> marketing opportunity. Free market forces will dictate the price.
>> It's not a ripoff or a scam if the perceived value is there, after
>> all, it's not a necessity item. And don't forget it's not just the
>> carriers charging that much, it's independent dealers/websites as
>> well.
>
>
> The problem is that it's not a free market. At least in my experience
> (Verizon, Nextel) the providers try to force you to buy their stuff
> or do without. That's why people seek hacks in order to gain control
> of their phones. I am a musician and when I realized that modern cell
> phones have a midi synth and/or digital sound player I naturally
> sought to gain control over it, both for fun and function. I guess
> it's not enough that I buy the phone and service, now they want to
> charge me an exorbitant price to make full use of what I've bought.
> Take note; I'm not interested in stealing anything, I just don't like
> getting ripped-off. Again, this is what feeds the internet hacker
> market.
>
>> There are a number of competing companies offering software to
>> access the phone from a PC. Should they all be required to give it
>> away or just the seller of the phone?
>
>
> I believe that the provider should offer an open platform access to
> the phone. In my experience, they do not.
>
>> Lastly, a true hacker is not one who steals. A true hacker will
>> learn how to interface with the phone and develop a product superior
>> to the others and offer it as freeware or shareware. Linux is the
>> result of a true hacker's efforts.
>
> Semantics. Bottom line: If people sense they are being ripped-off
> they will seek a work-around and take pleasure in "beating the man".
> If they sense they are getting a square deal, they won't bother. You
> seem to agree with me that the ringtone thing is a rip-off. Like I
> said before, as a musician I could create all manner of great
> ringtones. I would like to use these with the phone that I own. I
> would like to share them for free with other phone users. The
> providers work hard to prevent this because instead of just being
> happy with selling you the phones and service, they want to screw
> people for the little extras. I believe that concept will go the way
> of DIVX.
>
>
>
> Scott Vita

"BruceR" <brNOSPAM@hawaii.com> wrote in message
news:YaBDd.62683$gd.59088@twister.socal.rr.com...

> What's preventing you from creating and offering free ringtones? Surely
> not some corporate conspiracy!


That's exactly what it is and you know it.


There are plenty of sites you can find
> for ringtones - you're not limited to your carrier or phone manufacturer.
> When people stop being willing to pay $2/tone the price will drop.


My ringtones are free as they should be. Meanwhile, you will champion the
likes of these rip-off artists.


> As for the requirement for a cable and software, the price is not
> unreasonable so what's the point? Should a car dealer or manufacturer be
> required to provide a free tow hitch on every truck just because it can
> tow things or is it more reasonable to ask only those who actually want to
> tow things to pay for the hitch?


You are babbling. I just want access to the hardware I paid for. I'm not
asking for anything that will cost the provider a dime. I pay for the phone
and the service. What do they care what ringtones or phonebook software I
use?

Answer: They don't, but they will try and screw you every which way if you
let them.





Scott Vita