Does Multicarrier GSM/EDGE need different terminals?

Posted: 04-20-2006, 11:12 AM

Raqueeb Hassan

Posts: n/a

Hello! As I was reading one of the 'Ericsson Review' issues on GSM/EDGE

service evolution, It said "Multicarrier EDGE yields increased
bandwidth. This is manifested by increased peak and meanbit rates both
over the uplink and downlink."

Now, for a given time slots of maximum 8 for EDGE transmission in each
direction (uplink and downlink), as GSM standard allows it, the
transfer rate can be upto 480 kpbs. Now for increasing the bandwidth,
we can employ multiple carriers, as I understood. Lets say, with four
carriers and 8 timeslots each, the highest transfer rate would be like
2Mbps.

Now, what might be the complexity for the operator to install multiple
BTSs, (Base Transceiver Station) in same area for providing more time
slots than that of 8? Does that mean we also have to upgrade our
terminals/cell phone/EDGE devices that can recieve from more than 1
BTS? Will our terminals/phones need to have mulitiple transceivers?

TIA.

Raqueeb Hassan
Bangladesh

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Responses to "Does Multicarrier GSM/EDGE need different terminals?"

Me

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Re: Does Multicarrier GSM/EDGE need different terminals?

Posted: 04-20-2006, 01:08 PM

"Raqueeb Hassan" <wideangle@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145527972.127717.153220@u72g2000cwu.googlegr oups.com...
> Hello! As I was reading one of the 'Ericsson Review' issues on GSM/EDGE
>
> service evolution, It said "Multicarrier EDGE yields increased
> bandwidth. This is manifested by increased peak and meanbit rates both
> over the uplink and downlink."
>
> Now, for a given time slots of maximum 8 for EDGE transmission in each
> direction (uplink and downlink), as GSM standard allows it, the
> transfer rate can be upto 480 kpbs. Now for increasing the bandwidth,
> we can employ multiple carriers, as I understood. Lets say, with four
> carriers and 8 timeslots each, the highest transfer rate would be like
> 2Mbps.
>
>
> Now, what might be the complexity for the operator to install multiple
> BTSs, (Base Transceiver Station) in same area for providing more time
> slots than that of 8? Does that mean we also have to upgrade our
> terminals/cell phone/EDGE devices that can recieve from more than 1
> BTS? Will our terminals/phones need to have mulitiple transceivers?
>
>
> TIA.
>
>
> Raqueeb Hassan
> Bangladesh
>
It would be difficult to find today a GSM cell that is served by a single
TRX (carrier). A BTS site can support several sectors/cells and then even
more carriers but that cannot be used for an advantage but even for each
cell, there normally are multiple carriers that you can make use of.

Clearly this would ask for new phones.

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John Navas

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Re: Does Multicarrier GSM/EDGE need different terminals?

Posted: 04-20-2006, 05:12 PM

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <1145527972.127717.153220@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups .com> on 20 Apr 2006
03:12:52 -0700, "Raqueeb Hassan" <wideangle@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hello! As I was reading one of the 'Ericsson Review' issues on GSM/EDGE
>
>service evolution, It said "Multicarrier EDGE yields increased
>bandwidth. This is manifested by increased peak and meanbit rates both
>over the uplink and downlink."
>
>Now, for a given time slots of maximum 8 for EDGE transmission in each
>direction (uplink and downlink), as GSM standard allows it ...

AFAIK, neither carriers nor devices are currently supporting the use of all 8
time slots. Class 12 supports a maximum of 5 total slots, with a maximum of 4
in either direction.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

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Me

Posts: n/a

Re: Does Multicarrier GSM/EDGE need different terminals?

Posted: 04-20-2006, 06:21 PM

"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:5qO1g.25653$az4.18971@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <1145527972.127717.153220@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups .com> on 20 Apr 2006
> 03:12:52 -0700, "Raqueeb Hassan" <wideangle@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello! As I was reading one of the 'Ericsson Review' issues on GSM/EDGE
>>
>>service evolution, It said "Multicarrier EDGE yields increased
>>bandwidth. This is manifested by increased peak and meanbit rates both
>>over the uplink and downlink."
>>
>>Now, for a given time slots of maximum 8 for EDGE transmission in each
>>direction (uplink and downlink), as GSM standard allows it ...
>
> AFAIK, neither carriers nor devices are currently supporting the use of
> all 8
> time slots. Class 12 supports a maximum of 5 total slots, with a maximum
> of 4
> in either direction.
>
> --
> Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

Very true, or quite true, but an odd quote. The GSM standard DOES support 8
slots, although this has not been commercially attractive. I guess you
should have quoted this sentence:
> Lets say, with four
> carriers and 8 timeslots each, the highest transfer rate would be like
> 2Mbps.
One should not expect 2 Mbps but more than 8 timeslots would be commercially
feasible.

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John Navas

Posts: n/a

Re: Does Multicarrier GSM/EDGE need different terminals?

Posted: 04-20-2006, 07:17 PM

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <AqP1g.27039$Nb2.492378@news1.nokia.com> on Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:21:36 GMT,
"Me" <me@any.net> wrote:

>"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>news:5qO1g.25653$az4.18971@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

>> AFAIK, neither carriers nor devices are currently supporting the use of
>> all 8
>> time slots. Class 12 supports a maximum of 5 total slots, with a maximum
>> of 4
>> in either direction.

>Very true, or quite true, but an odd quote. The GSM standard DOES support 8
>slots, although this has not been commercially attractive. I guess you
>should have quoted this sentence:
>> Lets say, with four
>> carriers and 8 timeslots each, the highest transfer rate would be like
>> 2Mbps.
>One should not expect 2 Mbps but more than 8 timeslots would be commercially
>feasible.

If it were commercially feasible, then someone would probably be doing it.
Likewise "just" for 8 time slots. Network capacity is the most obvious issue.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

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John Henderson

Posts: n/a

Re: Does Multicarrier GSM/EDGE need different terminals?

Posted: 04-20-2006, 09:43 PM

John Navas wrote:

> If it were commercially feasible, then someone would probably
> be doing it.
> Likewise "just" for 8 time slots. Network capacity is the
> most obvious issue.

IIRC, the it's potential radiation hazard (real or not) which
keeps the timeslot count down.

John

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John Navas

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Re: Does Multicarrier GSM/EDGE need different terminals?

Posted: 04-20-2006, 10:14 PM

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <4aqa41Fui4joU1@individual.net> on Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:43:45 +1000, John
Henderson <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>> If it were commercially feasible, then someone would probably
>> be doing it.
>> Likewise "just" for 8 time slots. Network capacity is the
>> most obvious issue.
>
>IIRC, the it's potential radiation hazard (real or not) which
>keeps the timeslot count down.

I'm very skeptical. Cite?

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

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matt weber

Posts: n/a

Re: Does Multicarrier GSM/EDGE need different terminals?

Posted: 04-20-2006, 10:43 PM

As a practical matter, I doubt you will ever be able to use more than
7 slots in any direction. Transmitter and receiver must be offset in
time, so that both are never on at the same time. The duplexer
hardware prevents damage to the receiver from the transmitter, but the
transmit power will still obliterate reception.

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:12:49 GMT, John Navas
<spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:

>[POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
>In <1145527972.127717.153220@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups .com> on 20 Apr 2006
>03:12:52 -0700, "Raqueeb Hassan" <wideangle@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello! As I was reading one of the 'Ericsson Review' issues on GSM/EDGE
>>
>>service evolution, It said "Multicarrier EDGE yields increased
>>bandwidth. This is manifested by increased peak and meanbit rates both
>>over the uplink and downlink."
>>
>>Now, for a given time slots of maximum 8 for EDGE transmission in each
>>direction (uplink and downlink), as GSM standard allows it ...
>
>AFAIK, neither carriers nor devices are currently supporting the use of all 8
>time slots. Class 12 supports a maximum of 5 total slots, with a maximum of 4
>in either direction.

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John Henderson

Posts: n/a

Re: Does Multicarrier GSM/EDGE need different terminals?

Posted: 04-21-2006, 04:47 AM

John Navas wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <4aqa41Fui4joU1@individual.net> on Fri, 21 Apr 2006
> 06:43:45 +1000, John Henderson <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com>
> wrote:
>>IIRC, the it's potential radiation hazard (real or not) which
>>keeps the timeslot count down.
>
> I'm very skeptical. Cite?

It's been quite a while since I came across that claim, and I
haven't been able to find it again. The claim does get a brief
and dismissive mention at http://tinyurl.com/kvg9m

I did however find a good account of some design issues for
multislot devices at http://tinyurl.com/kttkw (a lengthly PDF
file).

John

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Me

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Re: Does Multicarrier GSM/EDGE need different terminals?

Posted: 04-21-2006, 06:12 AM

"John Henderson" <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:4ar2toFulel5U1@individual.net...
> John Navas wrote:
>
>> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>>
>> In <4aqa41Fui4joU1@individual.net> on Fri, 21 Apr 2006
>> 06:43:45 +1000, John Henderson <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com>
>> wrote:
>>>IIRC, the it's potential radiation hazard (real or not) which
>>>keeps the timeslot count down.
>>
>> I'm very skeptical. Cite?
>
> It's been quite a while since I came across that claim, and I
> haven't been able to find it again. The claim does get a brief
> and dismissive mention at http://tinyurl.com/kvg9m
>
> I did however find a good account of some design issues for
> multislot devices at http://tinyurl.com/kttkw (a lengthly PDF
> file).
>
> John
>
There are regulations for the maximum SAR, whether it is an issue or not,
you have to reduce peak power (per slot) when transmitting on more slots.
This is quite acceptable though as only a small portion of cells are
coverage limited and ask for full (peak) power. Multislot or multicarrier is
not different in this respect, the total number of transmit slots counts.
The standard already covers this for multislot operation.

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