Cell phone safety vs other wireless devices

In news:1130139503.330320.229240@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com "psomerson"
<psomerson@workmail.com> wrote:

> There is a lot of talk about the safety of cell phones, because of the
> radiation they emit.

Not really.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com

psomerson wrote:
> There is a lot of talk about the safety of cell phones, because of the
> radiation they emit. Why aren't there similar concerns regarding other
> wireless devices, e.g. cordless phones and wireless LANs? Am I
> justified to hesitate to install a wireless LAN in my home because of
> such safety concerns?
>
> thanks

What a great idea for class action suits against Starbucks, McDonalds, my
library and all other Wi-Fi APs.

On 24 Oct 2005 00:38:23 -0700, "psomerson" <psomerson@workmail.com>
wrote:

>There is a lot of talk about the safety of cell phones, because of the
>radiation they emit. Why aren't there similar concerns regarding other
>wireless devices, e.g. cordless phones and wireless LANs? Am I
>justified to hesitate to install a wireless LAN in my home because of
>such safety concerns?
>
>thanks
Generally products that operate in 'unlicensed' terrirotory are
limited to 100 milliwatts output. That covers Wireless LAN, and
cordless phones. hand held Mobile phones operate in licensed
territory, and may put out up to 2 watts instantaneous power.

However the epidemilogical evidence of serious risk even at this level
is lacking. The military, and police have been using devices with even
higher output for decades, and the evidence that these devices are
contributing to an early death is sorely lacking. So while they may
indeed be a risk, almost be definition, it must be buried in the
'noise'

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:42:10 -0700, matt weber <mattheww50@cox.net>
wrote:

>Generally products that operate in 'unlicensed' terrirotory are
>limited to 100 milliwatts output.

Most 2.4Ghz mesh network radios operate at 1 watt into a 6dBi omni
antenna which is the maximum legal for FCC 15.247.

>That covers Wireless LAN, and
>cordless phones.

Cordless phones also vary. Engenius SN-920 900MHz phones xmit about
0.9 watts.
http://www.futurecomtech.com/engenius_sn-920_faq.htm

>hand held Mobile phones operate in licensed
>territory, and may put out up to 2 watts instantaneous power.

Cellular handsets are limited to 0.6 watts. Mobiles can go to 3
watts. All of the handsets have automatic power control to limit the
tx power to only as much as necessary. The tiny new phones barely
transmit at more than 0.1 watt.

http://www.mapcruzin.com/rfr_maps/index.html

>However the epidemilogical evidence of serious risk even at this level
>is lacking.

The risk is not in the health issues, but in the legal exposure.

>The military, and police have been using devices with even
>higher output for decades, and the evidence that these devices are
>contributing to an early death is sorely lacking.

One might argue that the use of radio by law enforcement might explain
their general lack of sanity, but no research has been done on this
connection.

>So while they may
>indeed be a risk, almost be definition, it must be buried in the
>'noise'

The current adage is "if it saves one life..." and such. Statistically
insignificant health risks have been regulated off the market and will
probably continue to be regulated as long as victims can be
manufactured. When something goes wrong, a culprit must be found.
Eventually, the legal machinery will realize that EVERYTHING we do is
potentially unsafe and cannot be protected by legal action.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

> wireless devices, e.g. cordless phones and wireless LANs? Am I
> justified to hesitate to install a wireless LAN in my home because of
> such safety concerns?

Only if you place the AP on the floor and trip over it.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <24msl19v069m46u7j5r68qpd1ir0isl5m6@4ax.com> on Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:25:11
-0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:42:10 -0700, matt weber <mattheww50@cox.net>
>wrote:

>>The military, and police have been using devices with even
>>higher output for decades, and the evidence that these devices are
>>contributing to an early death is sorely lacking.
>
>One might argue that the use of radio by law enforcement might explain
>their general lack of sanity, but no research has been done on this
>connection.

ROTFLMAO!

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:25:11 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:42:10 -0700, matt weber <mattheww50@cox.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Generally products that operate in 'unlicensed' terrirotory are
>>limited to 100 milliwatts output.
>
>Most 2.4Ghz mesh network radios operate at 1 watt into a 6dBi omni
>antenna which is the maximum legal for FCC 15.247.

Perhaps, but find me a home wireless access point that puts anywhere
near 1 watt. Most are in fact in the 30-50 milliwatt category.
>
>>That covers Wireless LAN, and
>>cordless phones.
>
>Cordless phones also vary. Engenius SN-920 900MHz phones xmit about
>0.9 watts.
> http://www.futurecomtech.com/engenius_sn-920_faq.htm
Hm. I think the FAQ is like the Phone, non-existent.
>
>>hand held Mobile phones operate in licensed
>>territory, and may put out up to 2 watts instantaneous power.
>
>Cellular handsets are limited to 0.6 watts.
WRONG. .6 watts AVERAGE. In the case of GSM, 2 watts instantaneous
power at 800/900, 1 watt at at 1800/1900.
2 watts is actually .25 watts average, 1 watt is .125 watts average.

> Mobiles can go to 3
>watts.
Wrong again, mobile GSM is up to 5 watts instantanous, and 20 watts is
defined in the standard (although I don't know of 20 watts being
available anywhere)
> All of the handsets have automatic power control to limit the
>tx power to only as much as necessary. The tiny new phones barely
>transmit at more than 0.1 watt.

Wrong yet again, AMPS/D-AMPS phones have no power control loop.
IS-136, GSM, and CDMA do have a power control loop.
>
>http://www.mapcruzin.com/rfr_maps/index.html
>
>>However the epidemilogical evidence of serious risk even at this level
>>is lacking.
>
>The risk is not in the health issues, but in the legal exposure.
>
>>The military, and police have been using devices with even
>>higher output for decades, and the evidence that these devices are
>>contributing to an early death is sorely lacking.
>
>One might argue that the use of radio by law enforcement might explain
>their general lack of sanity, but no research has been done on this
>connection.
>
>>So while they may
>>indeed be a risk, almost be definition, it must be buried in the
>>'noise'
>
>The current adage is "if it saves one life..." and such. Statistically
>insignificant health risks have been regulated off the market and will
>probably continue to be regulated as long as victims can be
>manufactured. When something goes wrong, a culprit must be found.
>Eventually, the legal machinery will realize that EVERYTHING we do is
>potentially unsafe and cannot be protected by legal action.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <rtgtl1ledgguen6o1mo5ej4qtqfpo7616a@4ax.com> on Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:54:01
-0700, matt weber <mattheww50@cox.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:25:11 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
><jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:

>> All of the handsets have automatic power control to limit the
>>tx power to only as much as necessary. The tiny new phones barely
>>transmit at more than 0.1 watt.
>
>Wrong yet again, AMPS/D-AMPS phones have no power control loop.
>IS-136, GSM, and CDMA do have a power control loop.

D-AMPS == IS-136.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>